Effecting change related to hate speech and discrimation against a protected class of individuals
- por: DSParents United
- destinatário: Chairman William C. Weldon, Babycenter.com, owned by JOHNSON & JOHNSON
Babycenter.com is owned by JOHNSON & JOHNSON, and is host to several bulletin boards whose focus is the dissemination of topic-specific information for families and children.
There are several boards on BC that are perpetually in conflict with each other and have been the source of an ongoing feud of several years time. Those boards are the Termination for Medical Reasons Board and the Down Syndrome Board. Over the course of several years, these boards have had ongoing issues with cross-posting and tempermental flareups.
The obvious animosity stems from different perspectives, one that all life is to be valued and that every life has inherent value. The other that "sparing" a child a life with Down syndrome is not only honorable, but ethically required.
Recently there has been more of a trend towards denigrating speech/hate speech on the TFMR board and another board setup to guide pregnant moms into deciding about terminating their pregnancy due to a poor prenatal diagnosis.
Specifically, posters who have terminated for Down syndrome pregnancies have labeled parents who continued their pregnancies with children with DS as "selfish" and used various terms to denigrate the children born to those mothers. Their comments are made on their public bulletin board, and are often pointedly referancing comments or issues specifically from the DS board. They have even chosen as one of their targets a little boy who died, citing his death and its circumstances specifically as a reason for other mothers to terminate.
They suggest that mothers pregnant with babies who have DS lurk on the DS board, to "see for themselves" the horror it is to live with Down syndrome.
UPDATE: Posted today on the poor prenatal diagnosis board at BC
I do not run to that group and tell them that of all the children I know who have downs, all but one have died. The one child who did not die has had one medical procedure and surgery after another. The 3 older siblings are basically ignored. The mom actually hired a nanny for the healthy children because 100% of her time and life is taken up by the child with down's. She talks of the joy her downs child has brought to her family..in the same way one would talk of a dog. The child with downs cannot argue and often smiles and does not comprehend a whole lot. The mentality there has always been like one might have over owning a cute little doggy they fell in love with. And what happens in 40 or so years from now when this mom, who has completely forsaken her other children to care for the child with downs, can no longer care for that child? The adult children who basically grew up motherless will suddenly have to drop their entire lives to care for the down's child who took their mother from them. The mother has not been to a soccer game, softball game, ballet recital, or otherwise in the 4 yrs since this little girl was born. Fact is, the older sibs probably won't have to care for the downs child when she is older. Down's child, best case scenario, do not like as long as the average person anyway. They are wracked with health problems their entire lives.
We in the DS community have tried to find some semblance of peace between the boards. We have petitioned BC many times to stop the hate speech. They have responded by naming several of the comments "hate speech" and posting reminders that hate speech is not allowed. Posts are removed or edited on many boards for "violation of the rules". And yet, the one-sided reprimands continue.
Those who take offense to the description of our lives and our children's lives as "sad, unworthy, terrible, full of suffering" are chastised, while the term board members are allowed to continue to speak about that which they do not know...life with Down syndrome.
Such hate speech occurs with great regularity. Terminology such as "hideous" or "horrible" has been used to describe the children. Other comments pertaining to our children's "suffering" and the extension of pity to us as mothers:
"Visiting the down syndrome board is a great idea. I did that before I decided to terminate and it really helped me make my decision. Between the multiple skull, palate and heart surgeries, g-tubes, aspirating, seizures, PDA, PFO, mic-key buttons and the other issues I read about, I decided to let my son go in peace."
"I also lurked on the DS board and have since continued to lurk. I admire the mothers tremdendously and I wish nothing but the best for their families. Their struggles have pretty much backed up my perceptions and that has been validating to my decision. When I wonder "What if..." it fills in the blanks for me and reminds me that the reality of DS can be quite complicated and frustrating."
"It's just not something I could watch my child endure. I also suggest visting the board the pertains to your baby's diagnosis. I do so on a weekly basis and it too helps me to feel very sure about our decision. My heart just breaks when I read some/most of the threads. "
The response that thread received from BC:
"Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to quickly interrupt and remind everyone that in an effort to keep peace between boards in our community, we ask that you do not refer specifically to other boards, such as the DS board in this thread, in your posts. Thanks for understanding!"
We do not want or need the pity. And we simply refuse to be shut up when our children's value as human beings is being bantered around by those who are so afraid of disability that they chose not to have their own children with Down syndrome.
Federal law protects those with disabilities from hate speech. Hate speech is a controversial term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on his/her race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication. It prohibits words or phrases deemed to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, or with reference to physical or mental health.
Proponents of limitations on hate speech argue that repeated instances of hate speech do more than express ideas or expresses dissent; rather, hate speech often promotes and results in fear, intimidation and harassment of individuals, and may result in murder and even genocide of those it is targeted against.
Hate speech that results in actions against an individual in a protected class are particularly seen as crimes that are prosecutable.
The abortion of thousands of babies, the vast majority with Down syndrome, would seem to imply that this hate speech on public boards intended to guide women through poor prenatal diagnosis and beyond, are in many cases a direct result of the comments and condemnations of the women who post on the TFMR board at Babycenter. Their audience is in rapt attention, the words they use to describe our children are harsh, untrue, unfair, and vicious by nature. Their encouragement to pregnant mothers to observe our lives as a warning against continuing to term with their babies is offensive at best. We, nor our children, wish to be the poster children for a life not worth living. On the contrary, we find the lives we have been granted with our children to be full of joy and potential and love beyond words.
That anyone would take the negatives that are associated with a DS diagnosis and ONLY that is disheartening. We believe that it incites violence against our children both born and unborn. It absolutely incites intolerance and disrespect for them, and for us, their parents.
For those reasons, and more, we would ask you to join us in a boycott of JOHNSON & JOHNSON and Babycenter, LLC. An incomplete listing of their products follows:
Aci-Jel Aciphex
Acromed Act
Acuvance Acuvue
Adaptic Advanced Sterilization Products
Aflexa Agility
All-Flex Allergan
Angioguard Aquavene
Aveeno Band-Aid
Basic Be Average
Bebe Benecol
Bicitra Bioclusive
Biopatch Biopsys
Biosense Webster Bx Velocity
C-Stem Cardiovations
Carefree Carto
Celsius Centocor
Checkmate Cidex
Cidex Opa Clean & Clear
Clearglide Codman
Codman & Shurtleff Concerta
Cordis Crossflex Lc
Customcath Cypher
Daktarin Depuy
Dermabond Dermatop
Ditropan Xl Dolormin
Doxil Duragesic
Durogesic Dyna-Flex
Elmiron Eprex
Ergamisol Ethibond Excel
Ethicon Fasttake
Femrx Fibracol
Floxin Gas Aid
Global Fx Greiter
Gynecare Haldol
Harmonic Scalpel Healthy Woman
Heartport I/F Cage
Ibot Imodium
Imodium A-D Independence 3000
Indigo Induo
Innotech Interceed (Tc7)
Johnson & Johnson Ky Brand
Lactaid Leustatin
Levaquin Livostin
Mammotome Menlo Care
Mini Crown Mitek
Modicon Monistat
Monocryl Motilium
Motrin Mylanta
Mylicon Natusan
Navi-Star Neutra-Phos
Neutrogena Nicotrol
Ninja Nizoral
Nizorelle Noga
Noramco Norwegian
Nu-Gel Ob
Ocuflox Okt
Onetouch Ortho
Palmaz Corinthian Iq Palmaz-Schatz
Pancrease Parafon Forte
Paragard Pariet
Pds Ii Pediacare
Penaten Pepcid
Pepcid Ac Pepcidtwo
Perry Persa-Gel
Pevaryl Tc Cream Piz Buin
Polycitra Preface
Probiotica Procrit
Prolene Pronova
Protectiv Proximate
Reach Reach Floss
Ref-Star Regranex
Remicade Reminyl
Renova Reopro
Retavase Retin-A
Rhogam Risperdal
Roc Roc Dermatalogic
S.M.A.R.T. Stents Shower To Shower
Simply Cough Simply Sleep
Simply Stuffy Sof Foam
Spectazole Splenda
Sporanox St. Joseph
Stayfree Sterrad
Stim-U-Dent Sultrin
Sundown Surevue
Terazol Thermachoice
Tielle Tolectin
Topamax Tylenol
Tylox Tyrozets
Ultracet Ultram
Urispas Uristat
Uvar Vascor
Vermox Viactiv
Vicryl
Their Board is made up of the following people:
William C Weldon Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer Officer Since: 06/1998 Age: 57
There are several boards on BC that are perpetually in conflict with each other and have been the source of an ongoing feud of several years time. Those boards are the Termination for Medical Reasons Board and the Down Syndrome Board. Over the course of several years, these boards have had ongoing issues with cross-posting and tempermental flareups.
The obvious animosity stems from different perspectives, one that all life is to be valued and that every life has inherent value. The other that "sparing" a child a life with Down syndrome is not only honorable, but ethically required.
Recently there has been more of a trend towards denigrating speech/hate speech on the TFMR board and another board setup to guide pregnant moms into deciding about terminating their pregnancy due to a poor prenatal diagnosis.
Specifically, posters who have terminated for Down syndrome pregnancies have labeled parents who continued their pregnancies with children with DS as "selfish" and used various terms to denigrate the children born to those mothers. Their comments are made on their public bulletin board, and are often pointedly referancing comments or issues specifically from the DS board. They have even chosen as one of their targets a little boy who died, citing his death and its circumstances specifically as a reason for other mothers to terminate.
They suggest that mothers pregnant with babies who have DS lurk on the DS board, to "see for themselves" the horror it is to live with Down syndrome.
UPDATE: Posted today on the poor prenatal diagnosis board at BC
I do not run to that group and tell them that of all the children I know who have downs, all but one have died. The one child who did not die has had one medical procedure and surgery after another. The 3 older siblings are basically ignored. The mom actually hired a nanny for the healthy children because 100% of her time and life is taken up by the child with down's. She talks of the joy her downs child has brought to her family..in the same way one would talk of a dog. The child with downs cannot argue and often smiles and does not comprehend a whole lot. The mentality there has always been like one might have over owning a cute little doggy they fell in love with. And what happens in 40 or so years from now when this mom, who has completely forsaken her other children to care for the child with downs, can no longer care for that child? The adult children who basically grew up motherless will suddenly have to drop their entire lives to care for the down's child who took their mother from them. The mother has not been to a soccer game, softball game, ballet recital, or otherwise in the 4 yrs since this little girl was born. Fact is, the older sibs probably won't have to care for the downs child when she is older. Down's child, best case scenario, do not like as long as the average person anyway. They are wracked with health problems their entire lives.
We in the DS community have tried to find some semblance of peace between the boards. We have petitioned BC many times to stop the hate speech. They have responded by naming several of the comments "hate speech" and posting reminders that hate speech is not allowed. Posts are removed or edited on many boards for "violation of the rules". And yet, the one-sided reprimands continue.
Those who take offense to the description of our lives and our children's lives as "sad, unworthy, terrible, full of suffering" are chastised, while the term board members are allowed to continue to speak about that which they do not know...life with Down syndrome.
Such hate speech occurs with great regularity. Terminology such as "hideous" or "horrible" has been used to describe the children. Other comments pertaining to our children's "suffering" and the extension of pity to us as mothers:
"Visiting the down syndrome board is a great idea. I did that before I decided to terminate and it really helped me make my decision. Between the multiple skull, palate and heart surgeries, g-tubes, aspirating, seizures, PDA, PFO, mic-key buttons and the other issues I read about, I decided to let my son go in peace."
"I also lurked on the DS board and have since continued to lurk. I admire the mothers tremdendously and I wish nothing but the best for their families. Their struggles have pretty much backed up my perceptions and that has been validating to my decision. When I wonder "What if..." it fills in the blanks for me and reminds me that the reality of DS can be quite complicated and frustrating."
"It's just not something I could watch my child endure. I also suggest visting the board the pertains to your baby's diagnosis. I do so on a weekly basis and it too helps me to feel very sure about our decision. My heart just breaks when I read some/most of the threads. "
The response that thread received from BC:
"Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to quickly interrupt and remind everyone that in an effort to keep peace between boards in our community, we ask that you do not refer specifically to other boards, such as the DS board in this thread, in your posts. Thanks for understanding!"
We do not want or need the pity. And we simply refuse to be shut up when our children's value as human beings is being bantered around by those who are so afraid of disability that they chose not to have their own children with Down syndrome.
Federal law protects those with disabilities from hate speech. Hate speech is a controversial term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on his/her race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication. It prohibits words or phrases deemed to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, or with reference to physical or mental health.
Proponents of limitations on hate speech argue that repeated instances of hate speech do more than express ideas or expresses dissent; rather, hate speech often promotes and results in fear, intimidation and harassment of individuals, and may result in murder and even genocide of those it is targeted against.
Hate speech that results in actions against an individual in a protected class are particularly seen as crimes that are prosecutable.
The abortion of thousands of babies, the vast majority with Down syndrome, would seem to imply that this hate speech on public boards intended to guide women through poor prenatal diagnosis and beyond, are in many cases a direct result of the comments and condemnations of the women who post on the TFMR board at Babycenter. Their audience is in rapt attention, the words they use to describe our children are harsh, untrue, unfair, and vicious by nature. Their encouragement to pregnant mothers to observe our lives as a warning against continuing to term with their babies is offensive at best. We, nor our children, wish to be the poster children for a life not worth living. On the contrary, we find the lives we have been granted with our children to be full of joy and potential and love beyond words.
That anyone would take the negatives that are associated with a DS diagnosis and ONLY that is disheartening. We believe that it incites violence against our children both born and unborn. It absolutely incites intolerance and disrespect for them, and for us, their parents.
For those reasons, and more, we would ask you to join us in a boycott of JOHNSON & JOHNSON and Babycenter, LLC. An incomplete listing of their products follows:
Aci-Jel Aciphex
Acromed Act
Acuvance Acuvue
Adaptic Advanced Sterilization Products
Aflexa Agility
All-Flex Allergan
Angioguard Aquavene
Aveeno Band-Aid
Basic Be Average
Bebe Benecol
Bicitra Bioclusive
Biopatch Biopsys
Biosense Webster Bx Velocity
C-Stem Cardiovations
Carefree Carto
Celsius Centocor
Checkmate Cidex
Cidex Opa Clean & Clear
Clearglide Codman
Codman & Shurtleff Concerta
Cordis Crossflex Lc
Customcath Cypher
Daktarin Depuy
Dermabond Dermatop
Ditropan Xl Dolormin
Doxil Duragesic
Durogesic Dyna-Flex
Elmiron Eprex
Ergamisol Ethibond Excel
Ethicon Fasttake
Femrx Fibracol
Floxin Gas Aid
Global Fx Greiter
Gynecare Haldol
Harmonic Scalpel Healthy Woman
Heartport I/F Cage
Ibot Imodium
Imodium A-D Independence 3000
Indigo Induo
Innotech Interceed (Tc7)
Johnson & Johnson Ky Brand
Lactaid Leustatin
Levaquin Livostin
Mammotome Menlo Care
Mini Crown Mitek
Modicon Monistat
Monocryl Motilium
Motrin Mylanta
Mylicon Natusan
Navi-Star Neutra-Phos
Neutrogena Nicotrol
Ninja Nizoral
Nizorelle Noga
Noramco Norwegian
Nu-Gel Ob
Ocuflox Okt
Onetouch Ortho
Palmaz Corinthian Iq Palmaz-Schatz
Pancrease Parafon Forte
Paragard Pariet
Pds Ii Pediacare
Penaten Pepcid
Pepcid Ac Pepcidtwo
Perry Persa-Gel
Pevaryl Tc Cream Piz Buin
Polycitra Preface
Probiotica Procrit
Prolene Pronova
Protectiv Proximate
Reach Reach Floss
Ref-Star Regranex
Remicade Reminyl
Renova Reopro
Retavase Retin-A
Rhogam Risperdal
Roc Roc Dermatalogic
S.M.A.R.T. Stents Shower To Shower
Simply Cough Simply Sleep
Simply Stuffy Sof Foam
Spectazole Splenda
Sporanox St. Joseph
Stayfree Sterrad
Stim-U-Dent Sultrin
Sundown Surevue
Terazol Thermachoice
Tielle Tolectin
Topamax Tylenol
Tylox Tyrozets
Ultracet Ultram
Urispas Uristat
Uvar Vascor
Vermox Viactiv
Vicryl
Their Board is made up of the following people:
William C Weldon Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer Officer Since: 06/1998 Age: 57
Robert J Darretta Vice Chairman of the Board, Chief Financial Officer Officer Since: 1995
Christine A Poon Vice Chairman of the Board; Worldwide Chairman, Medicines & Nutritionals
Michael J Dormer Worldwide Chairman, Medical Devices Group
Colleen A Goggins Worldwide Chairman, Consumer & Personal Care Group
Per A Peterson Chairman, Research & Development, Pharmaceuticals Group
Joseph C Scodari Worldwide Chairman, Pharmaceuticals Group Officer Since: 03/01/2005
Nicholas J Valeriani Worldwide Chairman, Cardiovascular Devices and Diagnostics
Russell C Deyo Vice President, General Counsel, Chief Compliance Officer Officer Since: 1996
Kaye I Foster-Cheek Vice President of Human Resources Officer Since: 2003
Medical and pharmaceutical sales make up the vast majority of J&J holdings. As parents of children who by nature tend to have more medical care and supervision than typical children, and specifically more cardiac concerns, we recognize the weight of our dollars as consumers.
Michael J Dormer Worldwide Chairman, Medical Devices Group
Colleen A Goggins Worldwide Chairman, Consumer & Personal Care Group
Per A Peterson Chairman, Research & Development, Pharmaceuticals Group
Joseph C Scodari Worldwide Chairman, Pharmaceuticals Group Officer Since: 03/01/2005
Nicholas J Valeriani Worldwide Chairman, Cardiovascular Devices and Diagnostics
Russell C Deyo Vice President, General Counsel, Chief Compliance Officer Officer Since: 1996
Kaye I Foster-Cheek Vice President of Human Resources Officer Since: 2003
Medical and pharmaceutical sales make up the vast majority of J&J holdings. As parents of children who by nature tend to have more medical care and supervision than typical children, and specifically more cardiac concerns, we recognize the weight of our dollars as consumers.
Our demands are few.
~We respectfully demand that an iron-clad rule be put into place whereby Babycenter is required to delete immediately any post that defames or incites violence or hatred towards any protected class of people. We insist that that include specifically children with Down syndrome and their parents.
~We demand that Babycenter, LLC immediately revoke the privelege to post from any member who violates the law and BC's own rules set forth regarding hate speech.
~We demand that Babycenter, LLC immediately institute a zero tolerance policy towards hate speech or the denigration of a protected class of people. Their response has too-often been that there is some sort of "grey area" in regards to hate speech. Priority needs to be given immediately to removing any shadow of a doubt as to what constitutes hate speech. We would suggest that a forum be instituted of professionals and parents that would discuss this matter and create guidelines.
~We request that a specific contact person or group be put into place to hear complaints from parents regarding such incidents.
~We would like some thought given to the matter of links and their pereception on the boards as slanted one way or the other. Links to the DS pregnancy board should be available on all pre-termination-related boards. Links to the Alternatives to Termination board should also be made available.
~Rules should be revisited regarding posting on the Considering Termination for Medical Reasons board. Currently, there is no considering being done. The only ones allowed to post are those who have terminated, leaving the board exceptionally one-sided. Having been in those very shoes, who better to ask about the future in regards to a DS pregnancy than a mother who has been there and lived to tell about it?
~We request that a more firm rule relating to those who have terminated DS pregnancies being prohibited from discussing what life is like for those of us who continued our pregnancies and are raising our children with DS. Who better to ask than us? They have no idea what our lives entail, or the rewards and joys of raising our children, because they chose NOT to raise theirs. To allow them to describe our lives is akin to allowing a blind man to navigate using only a map.
~We demand that those who proclaim themselves to be in the medical field be prohibited from dispensing inaccurate and offensive rhetoric about us or our children unless and until they are willing to put a name to their anonymous postings and identify themselves so that the veracity of their claims can be verified.
Our intention is to garner as much publicity and involvement from DS organizations and parent groups as possible. Every state in the United States and many other countries have organized family support groups. We are not a small minority.
This issue has been one that has stewed for a very long time. It is our responsibility as parents to defend our children from the vicious, callous remarks of those who cannot see their value. Of all the places we as a community would have expected to have to do so within, Babycenter.com was not one. They bill themselves as being a community of integrity and concern for all families, and yet they allow the most vulnerable to be insulted and demeaned regularly. JOHNSON & JOHNSON has long been synonymous with babies and good parenting. Not just babies deemed perfect, but all babies, and all parents. We love our children as much as anyone, and when we find ourselves drawn into a debate about their value, we fight back the best way we know how.
We demand that this discrimination and insensitivity stop immediately. If this matter is not dealt with, we have no choice but to move forward with a boycott of Babycenter.com and JOHNSON & JOHNSON.
The above referanced companies can assure us of their intentions to deal with this matter by responding via email to boycottbc@yahoo.com. We, as a group, will make decisions in this matter based upon that contact and an agreement to investigate these issues thoroughly ONLY upon contact by the President of JOHNSON & JOHNSON.
~We respectfully demand that an iron-clad rule be put into place whereby Babycenter is required to delete immediately any post that defames or incites violence or hatred towards any protected class of people. We insist that that include specifically children with Down syndrome and their parents.
~We demand that Babycenter, LLC immediately revoke the privelege to post from any member who violates the law and BC's own rules set forth regarding hate speech.
~We demand that Babycenter, LLC immediately institute a zero tolerance policy towards hate speech or the denigration of a protected class of people. Their response has too-often been that there is some sort of "grey area" in regards to hate speech. Priority needs to be given immediately to removing any shadow of a doubt as to what constitutes hate speech. We would suggest that a forum be instituted of professionals and parents that would discuss this matter and create guidelines.
~We request that a specific contact person or group be put into place to hear complaints from parents regarding such incidents.
~We would like some thought given to the matter of links and their pereception on the boards as slanted one way or the other. Links to the DS pregnancy board should be available on all pre-termination-related boards. Links to the Alternatives to Termination board should also be made available.
~Rules should be revisited regarding posting on the Considering Termination for Medical Reasons board. Currently, there is no considering being done. The only ones allowed to post are those who have terminated, leaving the board exceptionally one-sided. Having been in those very shoes, who better to ask about the future in regards to a DS pregnancy than a mother who has been there and lived to tell about it?
~We request that a more firm rule relating to those who have terminated DS pregnancies being prohibited from discussing what life is like for those of us who continued our pregnancies and are raising our children with DS. Who better to ask than us? They have no idea what our lives entail, or the rewards and joys of raising our children, because they chose NOT to raise theirs. To allow them to describe our lives is akin to allowing a blind man to navigate using only a map.
~We demand that those who proclaim themselves to be in the medical field be prohibited from dispensing inaccurate and offensive rhetoric about us or our children unless and until they are willing to put a name to their anonymous postings and identify themselves so that the veracity of their claims can be verified.
Our intention is to garner as much publicity and involvement from DS organizations and parent groups as possible. Every state in the United States and many other countries have organized family support groups. We are not a small minority.
This issue has been one that has stewed for a very long time. It is our responsibility as parents to defend our children from the vicious, callous remarks of those who cannot see their value. Of all the places we as a community would have expected to have to do so within, Babycenter.com was not one. They bill themselves as being a community of integrity and concern for all families, and yet they allow the most vulnerable to be insulted and demeaned regularly. JOHNSON & JOHNSON has long been synonymous with babies and good parenting. Not just babies deemed perfect, but all babies, and all parents. We love our children as much as anyone, and when we find ourselves drawn into a debate about their value, we fight back the best way we know how.
We demand that this discrimination and insensitivity stop immediately. If this matter is not dealt with, we have no choice but to move forward with a boycott of Babycenter.com and JOHNSON & JOHNSON.
The above referanced companies can assure us of their intentions to deal with this matter by responding via email to boycottbc@yahoo.com. We, as a group, will make decisions in this matter based upon that contact and an agreement to investigate these issues thoroughly ONLY upon contact by the President of JOHNSON & JOHNSON.
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Effecting change related to hate speech and discrimation against a protected class of individuals